Thoughts on Gay Marriage...
Just read an article on Salon.com called: "Same-sex marriage - I don't care if it is legal, I still think it's wrong -- and I'm a lesbian." and it brought home again a lot of the things that I was thinking about yesterday while watching Queer as Folk 2. The situation is this. Gay politics in the 80s was about being worthy, reasonable, "rising above" abuse, scrabbling for rights. And to an extent, that is still what it is about. It mirrored to the legal aspects of liberal feminism. But feminism progressed, and so has gay politics.
Now, for me at least, gay politics isn't like that any more. For me the horrors are the Uncle Tom like behaviour of happy little queens on TV and in films (stand up, you abomination Three to Tango) and the assimilationist politics that means that just because gay people are now beginning to have the rights that everyone else (and by this I mean straight, male, european caucasions of a certain age - I suppose) has, that they should want to do the same things that everyone else does. That is, of course, when it doesn't offend people's delicate sensibilities. "Let's let them be like us," goes out the cry, "and if there are things they are allowed to do, but just can't, well that's their problem isn't it?"
Two examples:
- Gay Marriage
Marriage is a legal institution and it comes with a range of legal and financial advantages and disadvantages. It is an option for co-habiting heterosexuals, but not for most gay people. Should it be an option - YES. Should a non-"institution of marriage"-type form of legally recognised relationship be instituted (for both straight and gay people) - YES. Should gay people "get married". It's up to them - but I'd say no. Why do it? For whom? Are there no alternatives that might provide better options for gay people? Will lesbians have the same relationships as gay men or straight couples? Are there no alternatives that might provide better options for relationships that are currently grouped as "heterosexual"? The point of gay politics has been to fight for a space to be different. And that difference doesn't end when you are out of bed (or wherever it is people have sex nowadays)... - Children
Most gay men I know have spent at least some portion of their lives thinking that they'd never have children. The first thing parents say when they find out you're gay is "No grandchildren for me". The first thing friends say when they hear about coming out to your parents is "It must be a shock for them realising they are never going to have grandchildren". But of course all of this is the same tacit assumption that a child must be the product of a "healthy relationship" - which encodes all kinds of things within it (the age of the respective partners, the number of people in the relationship [and I'm not talking about sex there, although I could have], their backgrounds, sexual orientations, race, occupations, preference to work or to look after children etc etc etc). By which we could easily read "normal relationship" of course. But gay people aren't normal. That's kind of the point. If we were normal we wouldn't have had to fight for so much - we wouldn't have had to fight for the right to have sex with people we love, or desire, or like - or to adopt, or not be subject to medical experiments, or to be bullied at schools, or to be thrown out of our parent's homes. If people are happy to accept that there are different ways to have a relationship - why are they so resistant to their being different suitable relationships to bring children up within? And one of my favourite headlines recently: "Britains first gay parents" - as if the fact that they actually got a surrogate mother to conceive for them makes them any more legitimate than the thousands of gay parents who had to hide their sexuality in harder times, or who chose to conceive with a friend or ex-lover.
Laurie Essig (the writer of the Salon article) is completely correct when she says that marriage is "an institution founded in historical, material and cultural conditions that ensured women's oppression". That's not to say that marriage can't work well for a woman, but that it depends upon the adaptation of the individual to the institution or the institution to the individual. Marriage is also (as she goes on to say) founded in conditions that excluded "non-productive" sexualities, like homosexuality, masturbation, oral sex, anal sex - the list goes on indefinitely.
And I couldn't agree more with her when she says:
"why should those of us who have organized our lives in a way that looks a lot like heterosexual marriage be afforded special recognition by the government because of that? What about people who organize their lives in threes, or fours, or ones? What about my friend who is professionally promiscuous, who for ideological and psychological and sexual reasons has refused to ever be paired with anyone? What about my sister who is straight but has never in her 40-odd years seen a reason to participate in marriage? Which group will gain state recognition next? The polygamous? The lifelong celibate? "My point is not that we should do away with marriage but that we should do away with favoring some relationships over others with state recognition and privilege. Religions, not the state, should determine what is morally right and desirable in our personal lives. We can choose to be followers of those religions or thumb our noses at them. But the state has no place in my bedroom or family room, or in yours, either. "
Comments
Please stay on-topic, informative and polite. I reserve the right to remove comments for whatever vague capricious reasons seem reasonable at the time.
I Do not support and i will forever oppose it because they stand to be one of the signs of the end time. God has only ordained a man and a woman's bond and not same sex bond. Actually, it is total nonsense. I do not believe that people that are breathing God's air and dwelling in God's mansion (earth) can be bold enough to disobey God. I am sorry for those that call theirselves gay.
It is absolutely nonsense.
mide
→ Posted by: mide at January 29, 2004 9:47 PM
Tom, this excellent article holds up so well three years later, and is so relevant given the gay marriage furor in the US right now. Thanks.
→ Posted by: Gina at March 4, 2004 8:42 PM
I don't understand what is the big deal on gay marriages? It has nothing to do with the people who oppose it. So why are they protesting?
Why should one set of loving, consenting adults be denied a right that other adults have and which will do no damage to anyone else? If same sex partners want to make a commitment to one another, then why should they be prevented from doing so while other adults are allowed to do so? Its kind of like racism. When one is allowed to do soemthing and the others are not because they are different. I think that it should be legal to have gay marriages. I think they should have the same right as heterosexual marriages.
→ Posted by: Ms Sasha at March 10, 2004 10:20 PM
I think that same-sex married should be allow.We can't tell gay people that they are not to be in love or to be married. it's they life and they bedroom. who are we tell them that they can't have that right. we all live in a free crounty. we have the right of speach. we should have the right to married and fuck who we want
→ Posted by: jamira jenkins at April 8, 2004 6:49 PM
I don't even know why heterosexual people even bother to protest, it's not their business. All that is important is to be with the one you love. And sooner or later Gay Marriage is going to be a bigger debate, and even maybe end up a war against one another, because a large amount of people don't like to see others happy. This place is going to fall a part with all the racism.
→ Posted by: CJ at May 4, 2004 7:31 PM
Well lets look at the definition of marriage in any dictionary you might have. hmmm the definition of marriage is as follows..."The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife." So wouldn't it make sense to keep it that way. The one thing you all should understand is that most people arent against a gay couple, but we do think that it is ridiculous to have to change the definition of the word itself so that gays will feel accepted. I support a civil union that would entail that one could marry the same sex or a dog if that is the next trend in years to come. Even though a homosexual lifestyle is not what I chose for myself does not mean that I dont think gays should have the same rights as married couples. So take the rights which will most likely come to gays through a civil union and call it that.
→ Posted by: sam at November 3, 2004 6:51 PM
Mide, I'd like to say you live a life of staring at something that isn't real. Sam, I have to tell you that anyone who would think about marriage with a animal deserves to either be shot or deserves to go back to school until that person learns common sense. Changing the word defination is not neccessary. I have read a little over 200 articles on this topic and there are some people out there that make comments that throw someones perspective on life WAY off and just make you point the finger. Those of you who oppose a marriage between TWO PEOPLE are just fucked up. I really have no side between the two possible types of marriage. I may have moral objections to homosexuality but also agree to the idea that the state (government) should stay out of the private lives of citizens as much as possible, especially when the private actions do no harm to others.
→ Posted by: Austen at January 12, 2005 7:51 PM
I don't care what people say i will always believe that a gay couple should have the same rights as a straight couple!
→ Posted by: Kristal at January 25, 2005 6:26 PM
First of all I think that if gay people want to get married we should let them because it is their lives not ours. Then there is another thing how come guys like it if two girls are together and having sexual relations and but it isn't alright for men. People are so racist these days but it isn't about blacks this time it is about gays. In the bible it said something about whoever has not did something wrong in the eyes of god can cast the first stone. Well no one threw the stone cause EVERYONE had done something wrong in the eyes of god. So all i have to say is that if you think being gay is wrong why don't you cast the first stone but wait YOU CANT cause you have probably done something wrong in the eyes of god. If we take the gays rights away then this country as we know it isn't going to be free much anymore cause all of our freedom is getting taking away. I mean pretty soon instead of being able to pick who we want to marry others will be picking for us. And that is what we are doing to these people we are telling them who to marry. we are telling them to marry the oppisite sex instead of who they want to marry. so if we keep doing this just think what our world is going to come to in 10 to 20 years. Where is all of our freedom going to go? it is going to go down the drain I tell you. Thats where.
→ Posted by: Sammy Jo at April 17, 2005 9:22 PM
I too have done a lot of reading on this topic it seems to me that most of the posts pro gay marriage seem to say that they need a tittle to be married...well they dont they could have just about the same rights as a marriage, which is between a man a woman if you dont believe me try reading the bible, if they were to get a civil union
→ Posted by: Andrew at May 6, 2005 4:23 AM
First of all there is no gay "gene" resreach has shown doesnt exist so i dont know why gays say they were born like this when they werent. Second our country was founded on christian beliefs and dont say well there separation of church and state no were in Constitution is that stated look for yourself. Last reason is to let gays marry will open the flood gates for people saying why cant i marry my dog or cat some might say know one would come forward and say that trust me there are people out there who would if they could. If you want to talk to me email me at Sparatan2272
→ Posted by: chris at May 6, 2005 5:32 PM
I dont think it should matter to any one but the people that are gay,its not going to efect you so just stop complaining if you are and get over it we have bigger problems in the world to worry about other than same sex marriage. I have people around me every where i go that are gay even in my own family.I've learned to except it and i love them for who they are.It dosent affect me in any way,so why should it effect you?
→ Posted by: juliann at May 16, 2005 4:57 PM