TITLE OF PAPER: Vox Politics event in the Palace of Westminster URL OF PRESENTATION: _URL_of_powerpoint_presentation_ PRESENTED BY: REPRESENTING: Various Politicians CONFERENCE: Vox Politics DATE: 14th July 2003 LOCATION: Grand Committee Room, Palace of Westminster PICTURE OF LOCATION: http://www.telcocitizens.org.uk/Living_wage/pics/photos/room.jpg ---------------------------------------------------------------------- REAL-TIME NOTES / ANNOTATIONS OF THE PAPER: {If you've contributed, add your name, e-mail & URL at the bottom} James introduces the event: * "What we're trying to do is not get over-excited." * "Not to have a navel-gazing blogging discussion - what will blogs be good for, and what should MPs be interested in... in order to use blogs in a political way." * "Attempt to create an easy introduction to our take on what weblogs are like and what they're good for" The participants (Pernille Rudlin; Tom Watson; Steven Clift, Steven Pollard): PERNILLE RUDLIN _______________ Mostly going to be talking about mobiles. Diary format with links to other sites = definiton of blogging Why should mobile phones matter to politics... connection to mobile phones and weblogs... what's happening in Japan... political influence of weblogs. Importance of reputation management. * Mobiles and why they might be important to politics - mobile phones have higher penetration rates than internet penetration from PCS (hovering around 50% across europe vs. 84% in the UK for mobile phones) - mobile phones also have good pentration among the young and among people with lower incomes. Three ways they might relate to blogs: 1) SMS / text message / MMS to a preexisting blog (already happening) - mostly though you can't see your blog from your mobile phone 2) before WAP became "CRAP" - tiny little websites that you can actually see from your mobile phone. 3) Real time rich websites created from mobile phones novel BBS from mobile phones apparently Japan 3-4 years ahead of Western EU / USA 1999 NTT DoCoMo introduced phones (imode 50% usage) with colour screens, packet switching - paid by bandwidth rather than by access or time. Social fragmentation. mobile phone covering the fragmentation inthe job market, creating a social group via the address book, as opposed to the "factory / large company" Has there been a political angle to Japanese usage? Short answer - no. Koizumi (Jap prime minster) has an email list. People have not been apathetic, but not active in expressing political views. Mobile phone is more personal than a website. "Individual news sites" in Japan appeared in Japan several years ago, were similar to blogs - many have closed down. Lots of discussion about the creation of weblogs / moblogs and the like. "Geeks... get excited about that kind of thing" Very interesting point about how geography-based services are very unpopular on mobiles in Japan. dating is similar to flirting text service in Brazil Mobile phones could be a way of building "social capital". Clubs and societies being run off mobile phones. Smart mobs - she says they're not being organised with mobile phones - but they are being organised via lots of SMS's and the like being used to contact and communicate between them. Video phone footage, and images being used to get images of things candidly... various examples listed. Talks a lot about mobile phones to pay for things - and describes this as a kind of political participation. Not so sure I'm thrilled about this... She mentions reputation management a lot, then gives examples of tech usage, nothing about how this will happen, The reputation Mobile phones - you use them "to know you're not alone". [Note from Michael: Ugh.] QUESTIONS FOR THE FLOOR? 1) what level of particiaption can you really have with such limited interfaces?! 2) What level of penetration is there for mobile phones with the level of technology that you need to particpate in the web? 3) Re: politics and weblogging. Is a 'homepage' not somewhere you'd like to discuss your views? 4) Why she is going on about mobiles when we are here to discuss blogs? [Note from Michael: Yes, this was a poor choice of opening speaker... not everyone here is so familiar with blogs And there is nothing more guaranteed to turn people off than people going on about loads of cool stuff!] [she is very tech heavy, who and why not what and how please] 5) Phones are text-light devices. Blogging is, by its nature, text-heavy. is this not trying to force a technology onto the wrong platform? TOM WATSON __________ First politican weblogger in the UK - he explains how and why... Richard Allen is the world's SECOND weblogging MP. They would like to post from the chamber, but apparently they're not allowed to do so - people do apparently SMS from there, but you're REALLY NOT SUPPOSED TO - or something... They pop out to the Library, type stuff in and then run back in - hoping to make sure they hadn't lost their place in the queue to speak... He had a static site and got fed up with it - was getting no responses, looked around the internet, found the bloggerheads site that was campaigning to get the Prime Minister to get an e-mail address, so Tom Watson tabled a question in the house. [Thanks to blogging: the PM can now ignore popular opinion over email, too! - Tom S] Saw it as a leap of faith to be saying what he thought in public in a trackable form - novel for a polititian He described it kind of as an audit trail for political opinion published on blog - v.strong concept... [Party blogs]? Figuring out the technology was still a problem. He needed to have Movable Type explained to him at great length because there was a technological barrier. He's finding weblogs a really interesting space for asking people questions and getting responses from a distributed community of people. Interesting that he is already seeing the blog as a source fo help and advice - not just a vehicle for him. highly rapid evolution on submission of interwebthing knowledge: from technical to sociological, but v. fast... Fascinating and REALLY GOOD point --> weblogs are not a good platform for campaigning, but they are a profoundly good place for participation. [I like this idea, although it seems a bit backwards -I think he's talking about politicians participating with their communities, not necessarily people participating in politics - Tom C] Even though he is not teccie he has obviously really immersed himself in the stuff He's doing a weblogathon of some kind to raise money for charity and to try and get some really good policy ideas from members of the public. In fact, he's stated that he expects the public's ideas to be superior to those of Labour politicans. [Seems like a cheap[populist? - Tom S] [and when wasn't the New Labour party populist? - Michael] way to write a manifesto - Michael] QUESTIONS FOR THE FLOOR? 1) Are weblogs single issue device and party participation tools or MP tools, single issue for campaigners, like say wind farms or country side access 2) It's an interesting thing to talk about how members of parliament might use their weblogs, but it's just as interesting to talk about how members of the public can get politically engaged. STEPHEN POLLARD _______________ First major journalist in the country to be running a weblog. He's a freelancer [conflict of interests for publishers?] - wanted a place where people could read his stuff by collating them on a website... He bought a domain and didn't know what to do with it. Asked someone to make his site for him. That person named a price. He paid it. Kept wanting to write about things that annoyed him, but it turned out that people weren't that interested (newspapers) but then he discovered that he could write on his personal site. And was delighted. Started writing and couldn't stop, he "got hooked".Found himself sometimes not even doing his job because he was blogging so much! Most journalists don't know what a blog is... "Why do you write for free?!" Writes weekly column for The Times, and has only recently been allowed to put a link to his site in the column. He doesn't write for free, he has a PayPal link so if you should feel compulsion to contribute you can... He's had $50 from one of his own students in USA... that's it. "golden rule in normal public policy is anything that happens in USA happens here five later." [Bit of a misquote ==> "Blogs like the guy described as the urinal into which MI5 pissed"?[best I could manage!]) He knows almost nothing about computers, or indeed the public side of weblogging. America is "about five years ahead". He gives the example of Fisking... most UK journos don't know what Fisking is. [in fact they probably do... but don't know it by that name, I'd bet - Michael] NY Times columnist Dowdification. Taking isolated words from a speech to give a misleading impression about the meaning of the speech. Hacks like him getting away with writing what they want when they want - the immediacy of blogs doesn't allow you to do this [blogosphere will be the "many eyeballs" making the bugs of journalists more shallow... p/phrase] feels he should reply to pings and emails ahead of postal mail, due to ease of replying and the public nature of the comment I'd guess, letters can sit on the desk unopenned He's noted there can be entire "websites" dedicated to ripping apart individual articles. Sees some of the sites critical of him were very constructive and increased the debate Rather rose-tinted view of criticism: yet to be trolled. ;-) [only a matter of time. - Michael] Grover Norquist - grass-roots campaign to get things done. Howard Dean - $7m from grass-roots activists using the web. Other journalists are "living in the 20th century, not the 21st century". And he's not writing for free - people respond to his comments and inspire him to write pieces for which he gets paid. Blogosphere as muse is a non-scalable solution - as publishing costs fall, ditto barrier to entry - at this point paid journalism is a reputation mark... gets ideas from contributions to his website, feels is it a valid contribution to him. QUESTIONS FOR THE FLOOR? 1) Does blogging and email prioritise responses to the technology enabled, over the phone, fax or post. STEPHEN CLIFT _____________ Been doing electronic democracy for longer than almost anyone else... "World's first e-democracy website" [- is this bollocks or not?] more gopher hits than web hits Originally people said "The internet would sweep aside conventional politics", but it was too early - it didn't happen. Then they said "The internet will make everyone lots of money", then it didn't happen. People kind of seemed to be arguing that because it made no money, then it wouldn't be good for anything else either... But maybe this weblogging thing actually reflects a new attempt to try and engage in politics in a useful form. He thinks maybe blogging has more political potential than democratising potential. [Estabilising an elite is worring, not very egalitarian] moveon.org is being highlighted as a site thats time has come, 1 million plus members. It has a mass opinion behind it. He gives the example of Howard Dean's site Blog For America to support his presidential candidacy. 61,000 Dean supporters met up through meetup.com. [TomC comments - cf. Anita Roddick.com - e-mail address for her weblog goes to 'staff@anitaroddick.com'] He gives an example of a Republican campaign in Minnesotta with the Repulicans using a cow as a campaign mascot, they took the idea as the campaign as a news event, rather than a series of one off events [I think that this was the comparision] Twenty blogs for every candidate by now. The downside is if you have a blog and no one visits is do you have a blog? Most of blogspace is dead space "Blogging works because it's personal". [so does this mean that group blogs have limited utility? - Tom S]The closest thing to an email conversation with everybody. "In some ways Blogging is for the introverts" He believes that blogging 'community' are broadband users while the citizenry of the internet use dial-up... interested to see how this will develop. [I think this is total bollocks, personally] [I think that there is a barrier to entry, many bloggers read blogs, if you become a heavy internet user you are more likely to be on higher speed, not black and white though]] Piping blog entries to email: strong idea. [RSS -> email? tom S this is really really easy - I wrote a piece about it on my site a while back - loads of people do it already - not hard... tom c - cf. http://www.plasticbag.org/archives/2003/06/hacks_mailing_lists_with_blogger_pro.shtml - combine with mailing lists for proper discussion potential doubleplusgood] He thinks that the medium of blogs will be primarily a politial tool There need to be new tools which integrate better with e-mail NOTES FROM THE POST-TALK DISCUSSION ___________________________________ First summary - mobile tool ? Tom Watson - tool for participation Stephen for tool for critique Steven - tool for political participation ? missed some of these Dominic Pinto comments -> Political parties are in it to win elections - if blogs help them to do this they will get involved Very much an individual thing - the potential is there if enough MPs and local counsilors get involved it will achieve a critical mass. It's a trickle-up effect. Tom - University towns have higher computer usage other places have "digital divide" Richard Allan - Competition between MP's may drive take up Previous weblogs had been like "look at me - I'm a superman - here's me saving the world" but a weblog reveals more about yourself to people - its' what people are like... He sees himself as more geeky than Tom Watson Spending a lot of time talking to people who can't get them elected - the blogosphere is not geographical. Opening up the doors can be a resource issue - people who work here could be inundated Councillor who kept a blog (mad musings of me) found making the time for it a challenge. Honesty and openness, inherrent in weblogs, would be a possible challenge for the main parties. Tom Watson mentioned "career ending links" Blogs are very open and poltiics generally isn't - Does that create a problem? Also - Are there problems of resources? Suggestion of a set of core tools for MPs, a basic kit [What about training] for them to use. People will die because of weblogs - they will take the risk to say what they think in difficult situations China Iraq, Iran etc, But only when the authorities catch up to the technology. See Salam Pax. They are still relating too much of this to the old world of poilitics and power - we are in the oldest estabalishment... The power of this stuff will come from new and unexpected quarters Canadian MP (name?) Difference between governments and parliaments - eDemocracy/participatory slant. Assertion: weblogs die fast. [is this bollocks, or am I missing something? - Tom S][it's bollocks -Euan] [pretty sure it's fucking bollocks, actually - TomC] [some are still born, if people get going for a month or so they get into it. floor: A blog is not just for Christmas. Non-political, serious slant on blogs. They can also be fun... Structure of constituency feedback mechanism is inherent in blogging technology: keeps process from becoming chaotic... (ie: letters from nutters) At last someone is making the point that this will change politics rather than just sustain it - pointing out that it allows constituents to communicate more easily with their representatives. Getting a thrill when one person links to a story more thrilling than writing for a paper [This is bonus of the atomic article divorce from the gestalt paper entity...] New Labour could take on Weblogs as a "focus group" very easily, but maybe not as the free speaking weblog community might think they would, [though would this get a ragingcow type response] The Googledance as a democratising power: the more that bloggers (ie: people) cross-link, the further shared opinions and issues will be pushed up the linkings... Sasha Frieze (of sashinka.com ) - can weblogging change the community, example of bus routing to change local community, it is not just a virtual world. Using them as a tool to change low level politics BOBBIE JOHNSON of http://www.politx.com (or politx.ohskylab.co.uk ?) - This is a collaborative left-wing weblog for a group of about ten / twenty people. Tom Watson reads Sasha's site! several potential political examples of suggesting blogs don't scale, eg Gordon Brown will need a staff to reply, therefore is it a blog ? ASIDES FROM THE DORKY HYDRA-USING FLOOR: Good Lord, I need a gin like no man has even needed booze... Hey - can SOMEONE please talk abotu the mock-up of the GW Bush Presidential Campaign site? THe one that had a big link about how you put stuff on your weblog. Doesn't writing everyday HELP [il]lilteracy?!, yes but how do you get started, it would be quite daunting to start.. Not really - lodas of people who can't spell run weblogs. They're called Americans (oops - sorry) - what I MEANT to say is that there's no shortage of 'l33t speak' script-kiddies - people talk amongst themselves?! true, but there are lots of people who never even get there. Hey tell you what - I like the word illilteracy - it's kind of - you know - ironic... It's how you feel after drinking too much of the soft drink.// ENDS ASIDES Closings remarks & final points of note: Steven recommends chilling out 9-11 and Iraq stimulated a lot of interest in blogs, with people seeking similar opinions. General Questions in response to comments from floor 1) How might PR change this voting pattern mentioned by Richard Allan, maybe at a council level ? 2) At what point does a blog stop having a personal relationship, the scale turns it into broadcast. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- REFERENCES: {as documents / sites are referenced add them below} Blogathon http://www.blogathon.org/ Grover Norquist http://www.mediatransparency.org/people/grover_norquist.htm Minnesota e-Democracy http://www.e-democracy.org/ Blog for America http://deancalltoaction.blogspot.com/ Sashinka http://www.sashinka.blogspot.com/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTRIBUTORS: {add your name, e-mail address and URL below} Tom Coates tom[at]plasticbag.org http://www.plasticbag.org Gavin Bell me[at]gavinbell.com http://takeoneonion.org/ Euan Semple blog[at]theobviousblog.net http://wwww.theobviousblog.net/blog/ Tom Sulston mr_tom[at]gmx.co.uk http://livejournal/~mr_tom Michael Reeve myk.reeve[at]ntlworld.com http://www.myk.mcmail.com Ben Reilly, reillybe[at]parliament.uk www.livejournal.com/~liquorsnob ---------------------------------------------------------------------- E-MAIL BOUNCEBACK: {add your e-mail address separated by commas} tom[at]plasticbag.org, me[at]gavinbell.com, blog[at]theobviousblog.net, mr_tom@[at]mx.co.uk, myk.reeve[at]ntlworld.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- NOTES ON / KEY TO THIS TEMPLATE: A headline (like a field in a database) will be CAPITALISED - This differentiates from the text that follows A variable that you can change will be surrounded by _underscores_ - Spaces in variables are also replaced with under_scores - This allows people to select the whole variable with a simple double-click A tool-tip is lower case and surrounded by {curly brackets} - These supply helpful contextual information. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright shared between all the participants unless otherwise stated.